Pastor Steve and Dr. Sam Waldron sit down to discuss a controversial topic in our age, does the Bible really have some imperatives that are different for men and women in the context of the church setting?
(Beginning of Show Notes)
My guest is: Sam Waldron (PhD, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is the president of Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary and a pastor of Grace Reformed Baptist Church in Owensboro, Kentucky. He is the author of numerous books, including The End Times Made Simple and MacArthur’s Millennial Manifesto: A Friendly Response. (Paper - The role of women in the church - 85 pgs). (Hurley - man and woman in Biblical perspective; - 1 Tim 2:11 - 15)
1 Tim 2 - Men and Women in church.
Set up: - Saddleback Church, the California-based megachurch founded by Warren (purpose driven life) in 1980, was recently expelled from the Southern Baptist Convention for having a woman fill the office of teaching pastor. The church plans to appeal the decision later this year. Warren’s reasons:
Great commission - for men and women. Women are to baptize, women are to teach.
Acts 2 - women were filled with the Holy Spirit, and women spoke.
His third verse of evidence was John 20:17 when Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell the disciples about his resurrection, noting that Jesus "chose her to be the first preacher of the Gospel."
More: Want to get us to 1 Tim 2.
Do you believe that women are created in the image of God? Equally? Do you believe that there are women who are intellectually gifted? Are there smart women? Bell curve? Do you believe that men and women are different?
*Modern Psychology tells us that…
So women preaching. Women pastors.
*How do we decide on these things?
*What’s our doctrine of scripture?
Finished: 1 Tim 2V8 - I want the men to do the praying.
So wrong to have a woman…? Distinguish. Informal settings.
V9 - Similarly. Praying understood. Ellipsis. 2 choices:
- I want
- I want to pray, the women..
V 11 - what’s mean? Turning from praying to teaching/learning.
Adam…, the woman. Why?
V 12 - How many things? One or two? Ancillary meetings. Youth group?
How do some combine into one?
V 13 - For Adam… What does this mean? What’s the point?
V 14 - Not deceived. Deceived. (Aleph and A - super deceived). Point?
Q - easier to deceive men about certain things, and in certain circumstances?
Q - easier to deceive women about certain things, and in certain circumstances?
Do the gender differentiated commands map to differences in male/female natures? Are men and women equal in value…, but different in nature?
Workarounds - Seems clear. How do people work around this? Paul wrong…Jesus, not Paul…Radical new interpretations. Esiegesis
*Circumstances Ex Nihilo.
*Deus Ex Machina Exegesis
Examples?
Was a localized problem - temple women teaching…
How do we know this was not a local problem?
“this means a woman can do…?”
Some - we should be identifying women with gifts, and training, raising them up….
Some churches create other venues, mixed
Website - Village. Staff, women, “minister.”
Some - A woman can do anything that an unordained man can do.Alternate venues for women to preach.
1 Cor 11:1-16 - women proph. When? Where? Why?
***Judging the prophets - Grudem, Piper, Carson?
1 Cor 14:33b… What’s it mean? V 34 - reasons. What does it mean? What are some of the workarounds?Grudem/Piper view of prophecy?
Gal 3:28 - mean? Does it somehow trump?
Helps for a women who’s struggling with this? What to focus on? (Doctrine of scripture).
Eph 5 (Col 3, Titus 2:4-5 train the younger women to be submissive, 1 Peter 3)In general, for the Christian family, husband/wife - what is the God intended role of the wife and husband respectively? Does that role map to their natures?
Soft complementarianism.
Do these passages really mean what they seem to? Or can we find radical, new ways of understanding them? Paul wrongWe wrong - misunderstand PaulGal 3:28 - trumps all
(End of Show Notes)